New + Business questions

Hey guys,

I am looking to setup something similar to vonage (yes another guy..) I have read through: http://www.voipuser.org/forum_topic_8289.html, and it helped a ton!

Now I have the following questions:

1. 4psa VOIP NOW - Is there anything else out there similar to this? Any other control panels? (www.4psa.com)

2. Hardware providers - I am looking for BULK VOIP Converters, precoded if possible.

3. SIP Provider - I am looking to get DID's for US/CANADA/(other countries), international/national outgoing and incoming.

4. other things? - looking for e911, 411, etc..? What else would I need?


Thanks guys.


Been looking for a nice forum like this for some time

Welcome to VoIP User Kelso.

I don't think you quite know what you're getting into. With the basic level of questions that you're asking, I recommend that you get some help.

You might want to examine a tie-up with an internet ISP or a TV cable company - that'll be the only means of competing shortly.

Take your patented Unique Selling Point and convince a TV exec that their phone service can't live without it...

Dean

Thanks,

Why would I sell my idea to someone when I can make more money on it my self? I am quite aware of what I am getting my self into, I currently run a network of over 300 servers.. We're not just another 'reseller'.

I am not a tech admin, no. But I am managing this project, I will have NOTHING to do with the tech side. I am only looking to get some feedback. While I do appreciate your concern, I would also appreciate some feedback on my questions.

Thanks a lot

OK. Question 1 is answered pretty thoroughly I think already in my post (and the thread) you linked to above, and in my above post. We can't really add to that much more. White label systems simply will not cut it unless you're an ISP targetting an existing DSL customer base.

2. Hardware providers

Google should answer that one for you, coupled to market research on your target audience. Find the hardware you want (your target wants) and then phone the manufacturer for bulk orders and customisation. If you have the budget to go custom on the hardware, integrating novel services, that would be ideal.

3. SIP Provider

I assume you mean DID provider, not SIP. Your tech guys will sort that for you.

4. other things? - looking for e911, 411, etc..? What else would I need?

Just follow the legislation and point the tech guys in the right direction. It's too organic to be able to give any definitive answers - it's a case of wait and see what everyone does. To put it another way, no-one really knows. Yet.

I would let the tech people do their thing, and concentrate on the marketing. That's where you need to be a genius. Building a network and rolling it out is (relatively) easy. The questions you've asked should really be no concern of yours - there are far far more important things to be worried about...

Start attending the trade shows - that's the best place to meet people. The next VoN is in Stockholm.

In your original post:-

Quote:

another Vonage

You want to create a company that haemorages cash at a rate of $1m/day, and IPO's to a market that slashes its value by 88% in six months? You can see how this looks right? Richard Branson would probably say "there's an easier way, start an airline!".

You're getting into an incredibly harsh environment and you're taking on the incumbent telco's. That's a near impossible fight and can only be won with serious ammunition - Patented Unique Selling Points. If you don't have one (or several), forget it (seriously).

Quote:

I would also appreciate some feedback on my questions.

It's the nature of questions that you're asking that really highlights some things that I feel you need to consider very strongly. Sometimes a question can only be properly answered by asking more questions and trying to show someone the bigger picture.

I don't mean to come across as unhelpful - that's not the intention so don't take it the wrong way. But if I can scare you enough into taking everything very very slowly and with ultra-careful thought, then I've actually been helpful. You're going to need a lot of money, a skin as thick as leather and a cracking hot legal team.

As well as all of your patents of course...

<added>If you are who I think you are (is your IP addy a clue?) then white label is an option, just bear in mind that you won't make any money on voice in 12/24 months time - you'll be giving it away for free. The media department is the one with all the work to do on making profits...</added>

Thank you for your in depth reply, I will attempt to respond to your major points.


First

I think you have a misunderstanding of what "VOIPnow" is, it's a control panel (similar to plesk/cpanel in the hosting world) and it helps you to expand your business.. it is nothing but an asteriks built PBX for mass deployment.

http://www.4psa.com/products/voipnow/index.php

Second

Hardware Providers: I am not looking to take on a MASS market, I am looking to do something local, as the VOIP market here is basically untouched. I am wondering if you know of any WHOLESALERS of pre-made voip converters.. I am looking to get these as cheap as possible, I can add branding/coding on my end if needed.

Third

(this may come off as mildy retarded, but this is from my current understanding) I am looking for a "SIP" Provider, someone who can provide local origin and national/international termination. I am looking for something similar to les.net (I have been talking to them already about this) Just looking for other options out there.

Fourth

I am looking for standard features that are widely/commonly offered, that I currently cannot (with my setup (4psa/pbx+origin+termination+did)) I know my tech guys will handle this, but they sure as heck won't look for the best price I handle marketing/business development, they handle tech stuff. So this is actually part of my job, and I am trying to educate my self in various ways (hence my forum postings)

Fifth

Do you know of any trade shows in north America? Is there a VOIP magazine? What is available to the voip industry? (adult has GFY/AVN etc.., hosting has WHT/Pingzine/thewhir etc..)

Sixth

I want to offer a service comparable to vonage, I thought it would be a bit more descriptive then "VOIP service how to start?", because there is 100000 different 'voip services' I could start. Sorry for not elaborating earlier.


Seventh

As I don't want to come across as ungrateful for your help, I am really appreciative of people who have not ever met me and can take time out of their day to exercise their fingers on a reply to my thread I also am not 100% sure who you think I am, but I don't think a straight 'white label solution' is for me...

In reference to the hosting world I would like to be a dedicated provider, someone who colos in an already built datacenter, with a hosting provider (someone who can give me IPS/transfer/power etc..) I am not looking for a reseller account on someones server.

If that analogy makes any sense what so ever


Anyways, that was a bit long winded. I hope you have a better idea of where I am coming from now. Thank you for your in depth responses.

Quote:

Do you know of any trade shows in north America?

VoN features in North America.

From your decription I'm going to assume you actually mean DID provider/PSTN gateway operator (origination/termination to/from the PSTN) and not SIP provider. That varies from country to country and there are plenty of providers out there to get bidding against each other for prices. We won't get into specific recomendations here (as soon as I do that the forum will get bombarded with spam and I'll get bombarded by providers wanting me to push their services ). You will need to do some research. Go to VoN.

It's also unclear whether you want to provide VoIP backbone services or just hosted PBX systems. 4psa sounds designed for customers to work the PBX install themselves, (as you say, much like Plesk). If that is what you want, take a look at ScopServ as an alternative.

Hardware as I posted above. Contact the manufacturers direct. They'll put you in touch with their distributers/wholesalers. Google is the best research tool you have at your disposal.

Oh, industry magazine - there isn't really a "popular" one, but VoN have one : http://www.vonmag.com

They send them to me in the post and I read them from time to time. It's not fantastic (and the writers are all quite prolific on the internet already), but it's not bad and you may find the advertiser sections useful for finding suppliers. The online version is an appalling example of a website I'm afraid (as are most VoN sites actually) - it's a 404 fest.

You really need to go to a Von conference (that's been running about 10 years so is well attended) and start talking to people in person. That's the best advice I can really give you. In terms of internet reading, download a feedreader and shove these RSS feeds in there - start trying to read daily or every other day:-

http://saunderslog.com/ (Alec Saunders)
http://www.voipuser.org/voip.rss (ours)
http://disruptivewireless.blogspot.com/ (Dean Bubley)
http://blogs.zdnet.com/ip-telephony/ (Russell Shaw)

You haven't even mentioned security, but that needs some major consideration. Would you run your web services without a firewall or any security measures?

http://www.blueboxpodcast.com/ is a weekly/bi-monthly podcast on VoIP security. In the security space you'll hear lots of references to SBC's (Session Border Controllers) - that's the VoIP equivilent of a firewall and is a major growth space at the moment. You'll want to be spending at least 50% of your time in this project on security.

Dean

Thanks again for your indepth replies.


4psa works on 3 levels Reseller/Client/Extension and it offers each extension a ton of features.. offers the client a ton of features and the reseller a ton of features... it basically works like whm/cpanel with a end user login (for voicemail and other features) and a reseller level feature (add clients etc..)
it's pretty neat there is a demo on the link above.

I definitley would love to go to a confrence, but I think it would be a bit more efficent if i had something setup and running, and just tweak it with my new knowledge.


I do realize security is a huge thing, and that I have taken care of with my admins.

What I am ideally looking to offer is a b2c retail service.

I will do some research on the numbers do you know of any other voip forums? that have some healthy discussions on those topics ?


Thanks again

Hi Kelso

Unless this is to replace an existing "Pots" service that you already offer, Then

Quote:

What I am ideally looking to offer is a b2c retail service.

, you are entering a field that has a revenue stream that is close to Zero, and very a late entrant too. Also I assume you are in Canada so you also will have a tax issue terminating calls from outside Canada.

The money though is in the Business sector providing hosted PBXs for remote workers and Micro companies. Consumers now expect and get voice for free for the majority of their calls, Its hard to undercut free. But businesses will pay for service and features.


Ian

sorry I don't understand why you guys think retail voip is dead? Or there is no money in it.. I am not looking to directly compete with vonage by anymeans, we have a lot less venture capital obviously

Maybe you guys just aren't working the marketing?

Hi

Retail voip is not dead by any means, But it's a loss leader, there is no revenue stream in it. Have you looked at the figures for Vonage? Even before their current problems they where leaking cash like a colander.
As has been said many times you need a 'USP' what ever it is. and remember you are competing against companies that will be free to use such as the Betamax group.
To even stand a chance you need a customer base of in excess of 30000 paying subscribers and next to no churn.

Quote:

Maybe you guys just aren't working the marketing?

We are not a commercial provider - we provide a free community service.

Good Luck

Quote:

Maybe you guys just aren't working the marketing?

Have you considered the reverse may be the case? Where does the budget for the the ongoing marketing come from when you have spent your Venture Capital?

Quote:

sorry I don't understand why you guys think retail voip is dead?

VoIP is just a technology, not a marketing angle. The consumer doesn't really care about the technology that makes voice work. They just want good value calls (free is the ultimate in value) and a feature set, phone (or soft client) that does what they want.

If you're a cable co, MVNO or ISP, then you can offer the consumer what they want - free calls. You can make your profit on media delivery with a triple-play subscription fee. The voice is just a value-added freebie.

If you can't even compete with Vonage, who are simply a pure-voice play, how are you going to go up against the phone companies and cable TV companies? And if they're doing it for free anyway, what is there to compete for?

If you do not have a patented Unique Selling Point, you have nothing to sell that they can't give away for nothing.

Dean

dean :

If you do not have a patented Unique Selling Point, you have nothing to sell that they can't give away for nothing. Dean

I have to agree with Dean, there's little or no margin in the consumer market place, the SME sector is another situation altogether. The tradional phone suppliers have become to a large degree complacent. Here, it's not about call cost, which in my view will become so cheap as to be irrelevant, but the cost of line rental, plus number portability, flexing the system in a way that only VOIP can (without huge cost) etc. There's a signifcant amount of money to be made in this segment for competant VOIP suppliers and it's pretty wide open at the moment. The tradional companies don't see any point in not getting revenue from phone lines, and the IT companies are too scared. (The above comments are a generalisation, but still hold true)

regards